Jen LaForge 0:00

Hi everyone, welcome back to this episode of Stacked. We have been having some serious conversations about the engines and the people and the processes behind loyalty. And for something so fun as giving away money for shopping, it's been pretty serious. So I'm gonna step back today and have a conversation just as important, but probably a lot more fun. And I'm very excited to introduce my guest, Esther. Now, Esther, I have to do the background, was the first ever podcast that I ever did. She graciously invited me into her studio. We did a podcast together, and we have been, I think, starlined ever since. So thank you so much for coming back. You today are doing something completely different than those many moons ago when we sat down together on the other side of this. Um, I'd love for you to share that story because I think it's gonna set the stage for us. So, what have you been up to and what are you doing these days? Okay, what have I been up to?

Esther Garnick 0:58

After what I can only describe as like a hard professional burnout, I took a break. I stopped everything on the advice of a professional that I engaged to just kind of like help me almost intercept my own instincts, which for two decades had been like push, push through it. It's you know, it's hard now, but just push through it, get through. And I think that, you know, after 20 years working in PR and hosting a podcast, which I did for a couple of years, interviewing some of the most inspiring business leaders, such as yourself, um, it just became clear that I was beyond the burnout rate and I was pretty much burned down. So after listening to the advice to just sort of take a break, stop everything, very unexpectedly, my phone rang one day and it was actually my son's teacher, but it was summertime. And so the phone rings, I see her name, and I'm thinking, like, this is so weird, maybe it's a butt dial, like what's happening? I answer the phone and she starts the conversation with, if this is too weird, just hang up and we can forget about it. So immediately I'm like, what is it? She said, I had hired someone to come into my home and help me assemble some outfits and try to make sense of my style a little bit because I'm feeling a little bit lost. I'm postpartum. Is this something I could hire you for instead? Immediately I was like, that's not even a job, that's a joy. So if you need someone to come and help you with that, I will be there, lickety split, don't ask again, I'm I'm on my way. And then of course, when I got there, I realized very quickly that there was an entire process that needed to happen. I needed to help her edit through her wardrobe, which probably had not been purged or like there'd been no series of there's been no evolution for a while. Just the collection of clothes. It was just like a dense jungle of clothes of all sizes, trends we can forget about forever. Um, you know, just it needed to be paired back before I could even start putting things together and see what fits her currently and also suits her lifestyle. Anyway, all of this is to say, about seven hours into doing this, and you know, with like a sweaty brow and just something inside of me just clicked where I was like, this is so, this is just bringing so much joy. And I'm helping someone feel confident in themselves. And then it took me a little while because she referred me and then I kept getting referred, and then I it occurred to me, I'm like, okay, have I accidentally started a new business, which is now the EG wardrobe edit, EG for my first and last initials. Um, and it became a thing really organically. It took me a while to realize that the through line between sort of PR and podcast host is that it's sort of like a really intimate experience. You're connecting on a, you know, on a very personal level and helping people really achieve a sense of confidence and also like help them communicate who they are by what they put on their bodies. And I think that when it comes to shopping, sometimes I think it can sound a little bit like superficial, but really when you think about it, and I have over the last year of doing this business, what you put on your skin really trickles into like how you feel in your skin and how you present yourself to the world. So um it's been a really gratifying pivot that I didn't see coming, but one that I'm so glad sort of found me. And now we get to talk about it and we get to have fun with it. Yeah, now I get to be on your podcast.

Jen LaForge 5:10

First, let me just say how happy I am for you that you could take a joy and it turn into an accidental business that is such a success and so aligned with who you are. Thank you. But through all of that, what I just heard were your values and the core of how you help people and women and the power of a wardrobe is so understated, I think. And um, and so that's why I'm really excited to dive in because there's two sides to it is is I'm that we're gonna go on. It's one is how do you really curate and make sure that you feel good and you look good and it changes how you present yourself. And then tech on to help people understand how to make that affordable. Right. Because there's so much waste. I mean, when you think about when you when you went through her jungle, how many dollars do you think you put in the donation bench?

Esther Garnick 6:03

I don't even want to say because I'm almost sure she'll watch this and listen to this. So flagging that we've kind of changed our habits around spending. But when I got there, when I say there were like thousands upon thousands of dollars in clothes that could be donated, um, I do really like to promote consigning clothes, um, especially if there's some value still in them to be had and they maybe aren't for you, but maybe they can have a whole other life with someone else. So whatever we could turn into a little bit of money back, we did. But there were thousands upon thousands of dollars that were like unused, underworn, just sad-looking clothes that were like, you're never gonna pick me. So what am I even doing here? And now they're off to live their best life, either via donation or via the consignment channel. But it was a lot of money.

Jen LaForge 7:04

A lot of money. I'm also a victim of that. Because I think it happens for a couple of reasons. There's the the compulsion to want to be in style and always look great and have something new and a new outfit for every occasion. It can be driven by, we've talked a lot about emotional triggers in particular when it comes to shopping and you're filling some emotional voids. So you're buying things, I think it comes from your body, it just changes as women go through this evolution that changes our body. And then there's just this impulse where we want to wear these certain things and we buy them, and then we get home, we put them on, and um, you're terrible at returning things like me. And you're like, what was I thinking?

Esther Garnick 7:46

That is exactly everything you said, is what I see. And it like wardrobe over wardrobe. I've seen a version of either all of that or some of it, but not all of it. Like, there's so many factors that go into how people shop and how to kind of retrain yourself to almost practice restraint um when it comes to those emotional triggers, and also just how to learn what is going to work for you, how to shop smarter, and not just from a budget perspective, but also from a cost-per-ware value perspective. Like what does your life actually look like? And so shop for the life you have. And obviously, you know, there is something to be said about shopping for the life you want. And that is definitely true, I think, in a professional environment, just kind of presenting yourself or what you're trying to communicate. Um, but you know, even if there's a great ball gown on sale and you buy that ball gown on sale, but your life doesn't take you to any balls. Now that on-sale ball gown is still of no value because it's just hanging there saying, you know, sorry, I I actually wasn't meant to be here in the first place.

Jen LaForge 9:08

So okay, so I feel like to pause to anyone out there with a ball gown that you bought, don't feel bad, just wear it.

Esther Garnick 9:14

Wear it at home. Wear it at home, wear it to the grocery store. And if somebody's gonna judge you for it, that's on them. But at the same time, I would gently steer you in a direction where when you are looking at what you should purchase next, give it a little bit of consideration. Like, where am I wearing this? What do I already have in my wardrobe that can pair back to this item? And is it gonna serve me for the foreseeable future?

Jen LaForge 9:44

So don't feel bad if you're in the same place I am.

Esther Garnick 9:48

Jen, I have to come to your closet.

Jen LaForge 9:50

I've been working on it. We have to edit that closet. I've been working on it, actually. I've I've gone through a lot of the purging of it, and I'm leaning more now on the quality of things. Um, but where I do, so I wanted to say step one, you would say probably is to do that purge, right?

Esther Garnick 10:06

I would say look at everything, even if you're overwhelmed by it. And to be fair, this is kind of why my job exists, is because I think a lot of the time, bandwidth is an issue for a lot of working women who might be moms as well. Life gets busy. And sometimes you look at your closet and you have so many things on your to-do list, just like breathing down your neck, that the idea of going section by section through your wardrobe is too daunting a task to even try to attempt, and people put it off. And then eventually, once they kind of feel like their closet is eating them alive and they can't seem to find a single thing to wear, that's where I come in and we tackle it section by section. A lot of the times, I I call it addition by subtraction because once you really start to pair back the closet and see what's really in there, sometimes you might find that you've been buying the same black shirt with, you know, just different variations of the same thing over and over again. Oops, oops. Did I nail it? Did I nail it? You see. And I think that sometimes just having to come and face that kind of gives you a sense of, okay, what do I need beyond this black shirt? And how do I diversify my wardrobe a little bit? And how do I build a wardrobe that is actually going to be a high-functioning wardrobe for me? And so first I do the addition by subtraction. We kind of look at what works. I make everyone try things on. And it's so funny because sometimes people are like a little bashful at first, like changing into their pants in front of me. And by the end, like everything's hanging out and it's like a full kiki. But the truth of the matter is, some people hold on to things for emotional reasons, not just like bandwidth. It could just be like, oh, I'll get into those genes again. But it's so true. Our bodies change, and we can't punish ourselves by holding on to something that even if it did fit again, would fit differently because your body changes for every reason imaginable. And I'll just throw this one out. Sometimes that thing you're holding on to that's a size you haven't been in 12 years, even if you could fit into it again, you wouldn't reach for it anyway because maybe the rise on that pant is the size of a baby carrot. And it's like we're not wearing those pants anymore. We're not wearing those low riders to the club anymore. We got a job to go to it.

Jen LaForge 12:41

Things come back differently. Okay, let's talk about that then. Yeah. Because that I I already hear people justifying right now.

Esther Garnick 12:48

Yeah, things come back differently. So the bell bottoms that your mom wore in the 70s are not the same wide leg pant that you see today. They're inspired by, but they're not the same. And there are certain things that definitely are archival, like works of art, pieces that you should hang on to and pass down generation to generation. Maybe it's a special bag or coat, certainly jewelry, like all of that can kind of transcend time and space. I feel like those pair of jeans that you've been hanging on to for 20 years, like that skinny leg, it might come back a little more of a straight leg, but those elasticized jeggings with the low rise of the, you know, of the aughts. I mean, even if they threaten to come back, nished. No, no, we're not doing that. I did get rid of all of those. And how liberating, right? You're like, I don't even know what they're doing here.

Jen LaForge 13:58

It was it was liberating, but then there's the other part. And you you touched on what you said, I always make people try the things on.

Esther Garnick 14:05

Everything must go on.

Jen LaForge 14:06

Because I'll try something on and it looks terrible. And then someone who has far more fashionable sense than me comes in and does this tweak, tweak, tuck, tuck, whatever, suddenly I look fantastic because it's been styled.

Esther Garnick 14:18

Okay. That is definitely true about just a fresh lens. Having someone come in. For me, if I'm going into a client's closet, something that they're tired of that I've just, you know, asked them to try on and they're like, I don't know, these probably should go right. Yeah. I'm seeing them for the first time. So I'll be able to look at them with a fresh pair of eyes and go, actually, maybe we just need to wear them differently. Maybe we need to wear them casually instead of, you know, maybe a little bit more formally. Maybe that pair of pants that you thought was like a trouser pant that you would wear to the office is sort of looking a little different on you, but maybe it looks good casually. It's just a tweak and an adjustment of the lens. And then also just, like you said, styling around that functional item.

Jen LaForge 15:13

Okay. So the the next big question I had on this one, this was from earlier. I've been holding this ever since. Oh, it's gonna be good. Um, so I am a very curious person, so I fall into a lot of the traps on the doom scrolling and that around things. And one of the things that I'm super curious about, by practice my restraint on my curiosity, is this idea of an archetype. I've been seeing it everywhere and a lot of of promotions for capsule wardrobes and things like that. We've got the closet cleared out, and um now we're ready to start figuring out how to style, wear, change, buy. Should we know what our archetype is? Like, what is that? And should I know?

Esther Garnick 15:58

No. I mean, I'm gonna say flat out no. Everybody is different. I mean, I'm sure in the marketing world, like people that work in departments that are all about demographics, like the that's for them. Every single person has their own identity. And there's probably some part of them that's like, I would really like to be this woman, but most days I'm this woman. That doesn't mean that you can't reach for something that's a little outside of who you are, as long as you can make it work with what you own so that it doesn't sort of end up collecting dust as some kind of like fantasy item and you're too intimidated to wear it. So, like, take that intimidation away or take that sort of like marketing language away and just think about how you want to present yourself. And every room is different. What you wear to the office, Jen, is maybe not what you're gonna wear to the your friend's birthday party at the sexy restaurant. So, like you can be both women and have things in your wardrobe that serve both sides of you or many sides of you. We all have many sides.

Jen LaForge 17:19

Thank you for that because I am 27 different women. Right. At least based on my wardrobe. Yeah. At any rate. So thank you. Thank you. We don't have to define a style or who we are and what we're allowed to wear. And can we agree, Esther, that like when you said that it works, the KPI, because I'm still a nerd. Yeah, let's get nerd. The KPI on it works is that you feel good in it.

Esther Garnick 17:40

It's how you stand in those clothes. I actually had a client say this, so I wish I could take credit for it because it was the most beautiful phrase and summary of what I'm trying to communicate. The body doesn't lie. When you put something on and you look in the mirror, are you standing like, are you are you shrinking? Are you kind of tugging and fussing? Are you trying to convince yourself? Are you looking to be convinced? Because those are typically signs that it's not for you. When you put something on and your shoulders go back and you stand a little taller, feel it, and you kind of feel like powerful. And I don't mean like 80s power dressing like Angela Bauer of the Bauer Agency, like big old like you don't need a big shouldered suit to feel masculine in. You just need to, when you put that garment on, whatever it is, it could literally be an accessory. It could be, I love a sunglass. Die for a sunglass because it's transformative. That white t-shirt, you could put on a pair of sunglasses. And by the way, those sunglasses could be $19. And all of a sudden, you're like, I'm a star. Yeah. So I feel like the body doesn't lie was the perfect explanation. So look at how you receive that thing that you put on your body, and just notice how your body changes and adjusts when you look at your reflection. And obviously, there are cases where some people are just like a little shyer about trying things. It really, you'll know when that thing is for you and it really boils down to fit, which I think people don't focus on enough, and how confident you feel in how you stand.

Jen LaForge 19:24

I feel like watching Queer Eye is a great visual for this because you see the individuals at the start of the episode and then the end when they lock in their new outfits and they're new people.

Esther Garnick 19:34

And they're like, all of a sudden they're Beyoncé, the win machine is going. Yeah. Yeah. And they just are different people. But everyone can feel, I mean, listen, this is my thesis anyway. It's like anyone of any budget can feel that way in a wardrobe that elevates them, that lifts them up. Well, you just said the magic word. Is it budget? You did. The B word.

Jen LaForge 19:59

The B word. Because the next big question and where I want to go is quality over quantity. Yeah. And this was a big learning curve for me in terms I don't need a hundred pieces. I need three really good pieces. And so I think where I'd like to go is let's do a run through. So we've done the purge. We have tried our clothes on. We tweaked them, we tweaked them. We've, you know, we're, we know what, what, what's worked, what we like, what we don't. We know now we don't have to define ourselves into a bucket and stick to it. Now we're ready to now add to it and really define our style. Right. Well, that's a lot of money in clothes, or it's a lot of clothes for a little money. How do you determine when you're investing in a piece and when you can, you know, go on that shanhole and just grab some stuff?

Esther Garnick 20:50

I'm about, I really am about cost per wear as a value system.

Jen LaForge 20:55

Okay.

Esther Garnick 20:56

I think that, you know, again, value looks different and budgets vary, you know, household to household. And it's also sometimes I'm working with a very successful woman who earns a high salary, but she's just not comfortable spending a lot of money on clothes because that's just not where her mind is at. So it really does boil down to like your comfort level. But what I would say is you can invest whatever that means to you, whatever a good amount of money means to you, you can invest in another B-word that people make a swear word is basics. Like, why do people think that basics is like such a swear? I think that I have jackets older than my kids because they're just like a timeless shape, a good quality made item. I also live in Canada, so do you. Like, I'm not gonna be spending my life savings on a sandal I can wear twice in a season and possibly hate the year later because they are no longer they're too trendy. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to look for fundamental basics that are going to stay with me for as long as I take care of them. And then I can, let's call it, decorate around those basics with trends at a lesser price point. And that's a system I like. And I also think that when it comes to, and I mentioned it earlier, when it comes to kind of like special pieces, I like to go the consignment route because it also promotes a little individuality. So you can find that one of one piece at a lesser price point than when it was originally released on the runway. And you can kind of feel good about, okay, I got this at a great price point. And not every girl on the internet, which is a whole other like Jen, how much time do we have? Because I feel like MBA carrying women have been tricked by these algorithms where everyone is making these panicked purchases and spending way too much money on things that they don't even know if they like, but they feel like they're panicked like if I don't get this, I'm going to be unstylish, uncool, I'm going to look like a fuddy duddy, whatever it is. And then like everyone just like put the brakes on, understand that the creator economy exists all around us. And I'm for it. I'm like get your money girls and boys that sell us things on the internet, but be a little more conscious of the fact that like they get paid if you panic click. Yeah. So anyway, this is we've gone on many side quests here, but I'm like spend in basics I think that are going to serve you season over season over season. You will never regret a good cashmere crew neck. You will never regret a good wool coat. You will never regret a really beautiful fit of denim that is not too trendy but fits you really well.

Jen LaForge 24:10

And then you can go all around all of those like $10 black shirts I have, would I have been better off in investing in like one really good high quality I have to see the shirt.

Esther Garnick 24:23

I have to see the shirt. But I also feel like there's a misconception that quality means expensive. Sometimes break that down really expensive things are manufactured I'm like where's my camera? Tell me more sometimes really expensive things are manufactured in the same warehouse as that fast fashion brand but what you're paying for is a logo. Now I don't expect everyone to spend their days and evenings studying up on this but what I can say is even on the Racketon app, like there are tons of stores to shop from that provide quality items at a much let's say friendlier price point. And it doesn't mean that you know you're going to get a lesser thing because you didn't buy that super expensive cashmere sweater from wherever when there's a perfectly good one at Uniqlo for a fraction of the price on Rockerton. Thank you with cash back.

Jen LaForge 25:34

With cash back. This girl's good she's good you're hired. Okay. Um I love that and I want to vouch um to everything you said because it was and I did the math while you were talking 24 years ago I bought a suit jacket. I still wear it. It's still my favorite jacket. It has been timeless and it has just worked so well. And I have a bunch of other jackets that I've bought in between that I've thrown out because I thought what was I thinking right but the same suit jacket for 24 years.

Esther Garnick 26:04

I think that I've never met a woman who hired me to help rebuild their wardrobe that regretted good tailoring.

Jen LaForge 26:14

Yes.

Esther Garnick 26:14

A good blazer because even if you don't work in an office environment a blazer is just a solver. And it is good I think to spend a little bit of money on a well-tailored blazer. I think that that belongs in every closet and you will have it for years to come. There are different shapes and silhouettes that come out as the trends shift. But again I feel like there are really good options at a friendlier price point that you can experiment with trend. And I even was thinking about your coat that you've had for 24 years. I'm like cool great you know what happens things scarves are back. Silk scarves are back. Get a silk scarf put it with your 24 year old blazer and all of a sudden it's new broaches. Okay, let's get a brooch from you know a friendly price point retailer. Throw that brooch on all of a sudden it becomes a different blazer like there are things you can do to kind of move towards trends that don't require you to burn down a perfectly good wardrobe. But having said that I feel like sometimes people overlook the idea of fit and it's like even if you spent good money on that thing, if it doesn't fit you properly, if it is making you uncomfortable, if you cannot sit down, if these are standing jeans, I don't care if you spent $500 on them, they need to be consigned because there is another pair of jeans for you out there and we've just got to like let go of what we spent if they do not fit. And listen there are very talented saleswomen working in these stores. And these content creators again they know what they're doing. They're trying to appeal to you using words like if you buy one thing or here is the only things you need. And then all of a sudden you panic, you're like, oh my God, I don't have any of these things. If I don't buy them immediately I'm going to be the biggest loser. And everyone's going to know that I'm the big huge loser because I don't have these things. And the truth of the matter is I'm not even sure that that woman that sold you that thing on the internet is wearing what she's selling.

Jen LaForge 28:27

Yeah. She gave it up she's getting paid she's getting that bag. So um he makes segueing so easy because this is such a perfect entry point to talk about the emotional side again and those triggers and those things that make us do things that we wouldn't normally do or we don't want to do or regret doing. Like listening to an influencer and those keywords saying you have to you're nothing if you don't you know I mean that's not what they're saying but that's what we're here with. That's what we're hearing. Yes. But there's also Bogo buy one get one there is you were $7.21 away from free shipping.

Esther Garnick 29:02

Oh my God that is such a good trick by the way it works every time like the retailers that came up with that I'm like whoever I would have loved to have been in that meeting. I would have loved to have thought of it. It really is ingenious because it's like what $7.91 item exists on this website? Zero percent. So now I'm going to spend another $200 but I feel like I've earned my free shipping now. Oh yeah. So I'm savvy. It is such a good trick but it'll get us every time there is a lot to say about sort of the emotional side of purchasing. And by the way I think that there are positive emotions that come from you know knowing you got something or you pulled the trigger on something that is something you've coveted, something that's right for you, something you're excited to wear, something that you are like, I know where I'm wearing this. I feel like there is that's that's such a positive dopamine hit. And I am for shopping because if I wasn't I'd be terrible at my job. But I think that the idea of focusing on fit, focusing on functionality like really in your life because again even a sale item can be of no use to you if you're never going to wear it IRL. And I think that shopping should be one of those experiences that you feel like you are rewarding yourself with something really great and something nice that is going to make you and it all comes back to the confidence element. If it's going to make you feel confident you deserve it get it. If you bought it because you were in a panicked place and you needed something or you felt like oh my God I have something coming up and I'm just going to order 75 things hopefully something works. None of them work and I run out of time and I can't even return them. That is a bad place to be in and people start to feel like really crummy about themselves if they put themselves in that situation. So I think that when it comes to emotional purchasing I think it's almost worth it to just kind of go, okay, let me just try some restraint here and ask yourself like do I really need this thing? Do I really want this thing? Does this thing work for the life I have does this thing work with other things in my closet where can I see myself going in this? And then once it arrives at your house, if we're talking about an online purchase, I mean I like to advise everybody to make sure that you can get at least a store credit or a refund when you're shopping for things online because it feels terrible to be stuck with something that you're now like can't do anything with. I would say like make sure that the fit and feel of that garment is a hundred percent for you.

Jen LaForge 31:53

Perfect for you. So going back to you just said that big emotional haul and this is like a personal learning through my journey is when I started spending more money on quality pieces. I remember walking out the store and the feeling of guilt and the oh my God I just spent how much on that and like I better wear this and what if it you know all of those feelings that felt exactly the same as looking at that pile of clothes that costs the same amount of money but I thought I was getting more and being smart because I got 20 pieces but none of them fit. Right. And so I think that there's a trans emotion when it comes to the emotional side there's going to be that transition where you're going to feel it but it's the same as fear and excitement. Right. But the same feeling.

Esther Garnick 32:43

Well there are two right the excitement comes if you because sometimes it's almost like changing a habit right and moving towards let's call it investment buying instead of buying the most for the least that's a total change of behavior. You almost have to retrain your brain. But again like sometimes we're trying to do whatever is being prescribed to us and what I'm hearing is I'm I hope that you are so happy with all of the pieces that you invested in and I hope you got tons of wear out of them and tons of compliments too. But I feel like sometimes it's okay to just be like I don't have to go all in I don't have to like blow a hole in my bank account right away I can kind of start to just like look into okay where should I be spending am I comfortable spending this amount of money on whatever it is and maybe instead of buying a $120 t-shirt maybe there's a really good t-shirt out there for $19 that I can pair back to that quality blazer that I just purchased for $800 or whatever it is. So I am also a big like I live my life in the high low lane. I feel like when you buy something and you know you've spent a little bit more money than you normally would, it can feel like heart palpitation like what I just do. Yep. Yep. But then it's nice to know okay that great piece is going to last me for a very long time. But I can also it's not against the rules to wear that really expensive piece with something that cost me less money. I feel like how do I say this without sounding negative but I feel like I have never come across a woman and listen the real housewives are out there for you to watch I have never seen a woman who I looked at and I was like her outfit is $30,000 and that makes her more fashionable than me. In fact a lot of the times most expensive does not mean most style most expensive means like most something. Yeah we all have words in our head right now. Right. It's like you're trying to tell me something and that has more to do with you than communicating I have good style. Yeah. So I feel like the most stylish people I see out in the world are people that really know how to dress for their body but also you kind of have to look twice and go, I wonder where she got that. Like it's not you know it's not screaming in your face. Yeah. Which you know with logos or you know where it's from.

Jen LaForge 35:40

Yeah you make me think of the 90s where what was at the butt of all those pants? Juicy iconic.

Esther Garnick 35:46

Yeah everybody had a juicy bum back in the if you didn't have a juicy bum like what even were you doing with your lace? Yeah. I don't think I ever had a juicy bum. I definitely didn't have the tracksuit but if I didn't have a Von Dutch hat I mean I had to participate. But I also feel like that's a good way I'm like even back then I was like okay I'm not going all in on the juicy couture tracksuit. Yeah. Cute. I'll get the Ugs and I'll wear a von Dutch hat and I'll just like be part of it without going all the way. Yeah.

Jen LaForge 36:19

Okay.

Esther Garnick 36:19

I like that. Yeah that's a good tip. So I still have those Ugs, you know? Really? Yeah. Okay. Yeah I do. They stink, but I still have them. It's been like 20 years.

Jen LaForge 36:30

Is there an emotional hold on those ones?

Esther Garnick 36:32

No, I actually feel like in my life now as a mom and a dog mom too I'm like those uggs are pure function. They go on my feet they're warm they're salt stained. If I need to get something you know if I need to walk the dog around the block quickly on a horrible you know gross weather day they're there for me. I'm not walking my dog in my Italian leather loafers on the rainy day. I will I have been known to say that dog walk is catwalk though. And it's nice to even treat your dog walks with like put yourself together for those if you're not going to an office. It's nice to strut down the street and be like yeah I got it. I feel like the bare minimum there is just real pants. Yeah it could be it doesn't even need to be a hard pant yeah it could just be like a clean pant.

Jen LaForge 37:26

Yeah maybe one that doesn't have 12 different colors and all your favorite cartoon characters.

Esther Garnick 37:31

If you slept in the pants, take them off. That's a good rule. Take them off put on a different pair of pants make sure they're clean walk that dog with pride. But if you feel like your dog is ashamed to be on that walk with you you're in the wrong outfit.

Jen LaForge 37:44

Let's also be clear though if you want to wear the pants wear the pants. We're not telling them what to do with their life.

Esther Garnick 37:48

I mean I'm saying like this is just if you are open to a suggestion this would be mine. See how it feels see how you stand.

Jen LaForge 37:59

So talking about the feels um there are just some women who and I'm I'm probably one of them I don't love shopping. I don't love trying on clothes. I'm not particularly good. I know I I there's a time and a place for it but I'm I'm really busy and it takes a lot of time to do that and then to figure out how to style them and then you know which ones are dry clean. So there's also decision fatigue which is a real thing especially when you know you're you're making a lot of really big hard decisions every day. So what all of these things that you are sharing with us, these tips and and knowledge bites, does that apply to a capsule wardrobe?

Esther Garnick 38:38

Yeah if that's what serves your life right if you're going to be like I am someone who suffers from decision fatigue and I just need to know that I've got four pairs of pants and three shirts I don't want that for you. But if you're like this is going to actually make my life easier then do that. And then the only thing I would say is play with like a tunable level of creativity with your accessories around that capsule. So like to me when it comes to sunglasses I wear I mean for me for sure it's sunglasses. But shoes, sunglasses like the limit does not exist and you don't have to spend a ton of money but if you have a capsule wardrobe you can make it look so different. Again I'm not saying anything revolutionary here but it really does make such a difference. I could wear the same white t-shirt and if I change my sunglasses if I change my shoes if I cuff my jean instead of wearing it all the way down I have a different look. So you can kind of play with what you have if you don't want to like exhaust yourself with options in your closet.

Jen LaForge 39:47

You brought back out of nowhere a really fun memory of uh long time ago I worked at Expedia. There was this wonderful group of girls there and they would do clothing swaps. Have you heard of a clothing swap?

Esther Garnick 39:59

Of course. Well I don't know if I could say this on the podcast but we called it a switch. I think that it's the same thing. It's like you get together it's kind of like like the Tupperware parties of old but now it's like we're swapping clothes so that we kind of find, you know, new treasure that somebody else is tired of and swap it.

Jen LaForge 40:23

I feel like that's also helps with the purge helps with the new perspective seeing it for the first time helps with the style and also helps make it really fun because it's it's pretty stressful.

Esther Garnick 40:33

Like I think that is a fun thing that you can do and it costs nothing but maybe a bottle of wine to like have a good time with. I mean I feel like that's one way to do it. I like consignment shopping for that reason too. It's like you're selling stuff that doesn't belong with you anymore or never did you're letting it go. But then you're also like receiving money back for those items that you can then put towards someone else's item that didn't work for them. And or maybe they just loved it so much that they're like I think we've seen our last bit of time together go live a new life. Yeah. Shirt. You know?

Jen LaForge 41:14

Or maybe it helps to fund that maybe higher quality investment piece or go intowards.

Esther Garnick 41:22

Right. It's it's your personal Kickstarter campaign. 100% there are so many benefits to it and it's also cyclical not to mention it's sustainable. I mean I'm so pro that but yeah I mean I think that the reason that people when people tell me I hate shopping or it's like not good for me is just because they've had too many experiences that made them feel bad instead of excited or good. I also because I have to be sure to say do not put yourself in debt for clothing. Do not put yourself in debt for the latest anything because no matter how confident you stand, if that if the creditors start calling you garbage. And so there is a smarter way to shop and I always say like shop within obviously your means but you don't always need to buy a new wardrobe like a complete new wardrobe season over season. Building a wardrobe should be something you look forward to doing and it should be something that is ongoing. But I understand obviously we consume differently now than we did, you know, generations ago we're kind of buying things not just for one season but we're kind of buying them for the mood we're in or we're reacting to something. So it does take a little bit of practice to kind of like change your behavior to the idea of building a wardrobe and not just accumulating stuff. And then when you do finally feel like you understand how to wear your clothes and your clothes can be like relied upon to make you feel better or make you feel great or make you feel feel powerful, confident, fun, whatever you whatever the outcome is is it sexy? Is it feminine is it strong? Go into your closet and if you're like I can rely on my closet to give me back what I need to feel today it's an amazing feeling.

Jen LaForge 43:30

It is and those thousands of dollars like in your your first story that's seven hours the thousands of dollars you can sorry Carly I'm telling everybody. It's okay but now we know your name's Carly Yeah we're going to find you yeah the Jane should be on rack at end she'd better be she well I hope so. Yeah that's well that's a good segue because I was going to talk about that thousands of dollars um you could use that to I would say if you're really struggling here invest in someone like you who specialize And has so much joy and strong values around empowering women through their outfits. Thank you for fixing that Jen. So first do that.

Esther Garnick 44:08

Do that.

Jen LaForge 44:08

And then that's gonna save you more money over time.

Esther Garnick 44:11

No, truly, it's the thing I hear over and over again is that I am actually, it's kind of like a wardrobe therapist in a way. It's like I am saving people a lot of money and also preventing so much waste and panicked purchases are never it's never a good feeling. So to kind of have me come in and sort of help shift the behavior and move towards fit and, you know, creating a wardrobe that's high functioning, I think it is overall like the right investment if someone is just kind of shopping without any rhyme or reason and still feels like they have nothing to wear, but their closet is caving in on itself.

Jen LaForge 45:00

Caving in. Me a couple of years ago, you are an investment. Uh couple last questions I want to touch on because in the loyalty space, when I when I try and think about like the best loyalty program within apparel, I can't think of one. The best loyalty program with apparel? Yeah. Is there an apparel brand that has a strong loyalty program? I can't think of one.

Esther Garnick 45:23

I mean, I just heard this the other day, and it's not the same, but it's the first thing that popped into my head. Okay, so the gap started doing this thing reportedly. I haven't actually seen it, but it was reported the gap started doing this thing where instead of using like outside influencers exclusively to sell their stuff, they started giving their employees incentives to like post and share and sell and make an affiliate on the clothes that the gap sells so that they could almost like earn in addition to their so they could become sort of in-house influencers. Different question, probably. Um but that's the only thing available for your brain to reach because there isn't any. I'm not, I can't find, I can't think of one. But I was like, ooh, that was smart that the gap did that also on Racketton. Yes, yes.

Jen LaForge 46:20

Um, and they do have their their old Navy has like the dollars. Yeah, maybe come back in two weeks and you have Navy cash. There's a few things there. So just you know, selfish plug. That's why you go to Rackton, because you can get loyalty cash back percentage on your apparel clothing.

Esther Garnick 46:35

Yeah, I thought you were leading me there, and I'm like, maybe there's she's like really concerned that there's no loyalty. I mean, I actually I'm like, it is the first thing I thought of, but I was like, she can't really be asking me. But I'll I will say, I will say, okay, that I think initially people are like, well, what's the trick on Racketton? And it's always hilarious because I have this conversation with people since the days that Esther has the podcast when we would talk about Racketton. I'm like, no, it's there is no trick. It's just that simple. You're spending the money anyway at these retailers. If you shop through the app, you get cash back. And sometimes it's like 13%, sometimes it's 2%, but it's never 0%. Never zero. So it's just, I think it's I think it's ingenious. I feel like, and I'm happy to see that it's grown so much and that the retailers on there are so sexy.

Jen LaForge 47:30

We were talking about this earlier. Yeah. So I wasn't gonna go there. I was dropping a little selfish plug there. Uh-huh. But the main put, but so that's why I love you. Because thank you for that. But where I was gonna go was outside of that, I can't think of other ways to save within apparel shopping. I can be smarter on my spend. Right. But maybe is there other ways that you could think of that? To save on save on your your new wardrobe or your curation or your n your apparel?

Esther Garnick 47:57

Like what are other I was raised to never pay full price at retail. So that's just let's start there. I will say sometimes you have to because you're just like, I don't want to miss out on this thing, or I don't want, but I would say because there is no specific sales season anymore. I feel like retailers are now, it's so competitive out there, especially the boutiques. Like I love the independent boutique experience, even if it's an e-tailer. Um, but I feel like sales come up. So sometimes look for um retailers that will allow you to build a wish list.

Jen LaForge 48:36

Okay.

Esther Garnick 48:37

And then sometimes instead of just getting so seduced by a sale item just because it's less expensive, if you've kind of been building your wish lists at these different retailers, when you see that thing on sale, execute. And then you've saved because you were wanting it anyway. You were probably gonna buy it at full price if it didn't go on sale. But now you've been able to kind of like practice that restraint a little bit and watch and see. But I mean, I think that that is something that retailers introduced and more people are doing, um, more brands are doing the wish list building. But yeah, I mean, other than getting a job there and asking for it for the employee to employee. Yeah, I mean, it's hard. It is hard because it's such a competitive space and you know, we want our retailers to survive and we want them all to be in the black or in the yeah, in the black. Yeah. So um, that's just a trick that I would suggest, especially when it comes to like, so people don't become seduced by something that just because it's on sale that they wouldn't have considered otherwise. Okay, because eventually that thing that you do like will probably come up on sale.

Jen LaForge 49:53

Okay. So everything sounds incredibly simple, exceptionally fun and fashionable, but it's really not. And so for those that have been on this journey or maybe struggling, still feel as though a lot of their dollars are being wasted or feeling that guilt to the pile of clothes that they'll never wear. Um, let's sum this up um with services like you provide as a fashion consultant is an investment. Yes. And can save you a lot of money down the road. And through that, not only are you getting a brand new self in your clothes, but you're getting a runway to save going forward.

Esther Garnick 50:32

Yes. It's it's going to basically eliminate waste. And that also includes your time. So it's not just your dollars. It's just like again, bandwidth is limited for so many women for a long list of reasons, but just like spending time in your closet and then feeling gnarly when you're like, I don't like anything in here. Just like even eliminating that and getting out of that rut. Yeah. Wasted time, wasted money. That's over. We're ushering in a new era where we are making smart purchases and your closet is going to function at the level that also helps you function at a higher level because it's all a very holistic thing.

Jen LaForge 51:21

I can't wait to go home and go in my closet and I'm gonna call it, wait for it. I'm gonna call it my Esther era.

Esther Garnick 51:27

Yeah, you're in your Esther era. You're in your Esther, the EG wardrobe edit era. And this is the three, these are the pillars. You got to do a big purge if you haven't done it already, but you said that you already have done that. Yeah. You got to get rid of anything that doesn't serve you anymore. Then you got to spend a little time with what still fits, but you're feeling a little unsure of, and just kind of like play with it a little bit. Like dedicate time. It doesn't need to be all in one sitting, but dedicate some time to just kind of like looking at it and going, okay, how could I update this? What like small item outside of my closet could I purchase to bring this old thing into a current era? And then, you know, the third part is just kind of like rebuilding. And that is not something that needs to be done. Like, I really want to stress this. The rebuilding of a wardrobe, even if you are someone with a bottomless well of money, like it doesn't need to be done all in one day. Work with what's still is good, that gold that's in your closet that maybe you were overlooking because maybe there was just too much going on in there and you couldn't see it. Work with that, those great pieces, and then slowly layer in some new pieces that are going to really perform at the level you need them to.

Jen LaForge 52:45

Okay. And fashion is fun. It should be for everybody. It should be fun and it is for everyone. Some of us just need help. I'm sure there's I have more questions for you because we haven't even talked about colors and skin tone and hair and this.

Esther Garnick 52:59

That's very back, this whole like color, what's it called?

Jen LaForge 53:04

Your seasons, your color swatching. It depends on your Doom Scroll, I think. But it also depends. What season are you? I have a thousand questions. I'm sure everyone else has a thousand questions. So one more time, tell them how to get a hold of you. If they would like a consult. Oh my gosh.

Esther Garnick 53:20

Everyone get in touch with me. I love talking to people about this.

Jen LaForge 53:22

Okay.

Esther Garnick 53:23

My website is EG We E G W E dot C A. And all of my contact information is on there. But if you want to find me on Instagram, it's EG underscore wardrobe edit. And I will happily talk anybody through whatever their closet conundrum is, because ultimately I'm trying to get as many women to move as confidently as possible in these streets. So I'm here for you. And I so appreciate that you, of course, let me in the building.

Jen LaForge 53:58

And if you're nervous and you're not ready, you want to get to know Esther a little bit more. Done but not dead. Estra has a podcast still on Spotify, so you can go back and check that out.

Esther Garnick 54:09

Yeah, see, we are so many versions of ourselves. But like ultimately, confidence first.

Jen LaForge 54:16

There you go. Tins up, shoulders back. Let's have more fun and still be smart and sobby. Estra, thank you for coming in and helping me. Thank you for having me. This was so much fun. Please come home with me now. I'm coming. Okay, perfect. And that's it for this episode of Stack. If you found this useful, follow along as we interview leaders shaping the future of retail and learn how value really works behind the scenes. And if there's a topic you want us to unpack, I'd love to hear from you. See you next time.