Jen LaForge 0:00

I'm very excited to sit down with today's guest, who I've personally had the pleasure of working with for over seven years now, Reggie Malur. She's a director of engagement here at Racton.ca. And uh one of the things I'm most excited about when we bring a guest in to talk about uh, you know, stacked and what we're trying to do here is not only how hyper knowledgeable these individuals are, but the passion behind it. And Regia has this passion for retention and customer engagement that brings a fire to the boardroom and results to the table. So, Reggie, thank you for being here. Let's dive in. Um, let's start you just sharing a little bit about your journey and why you have this passion for customer engagement and retention.

Reja Mulloor 0:45

Sure. I mean, specific to Rackton, actually, I was a member before I even started because I love a good deal and I love giving consumers that same joy of getting the good deal. So um in the last seven-ish years, that's pretty much been my goal is to try our best to surprise and delight customers wherever we can. Um, and always looking out for where we might be not giving them the best experience because I'm a consumer too. I'm a member too. I take these experiences, even that I have with other retailers, and I tell people about it, and I, you know, laud good experiences, but I also am pretty vocal about not so great experiences. And since I own it here, I want to make sure it represents me in a way. So I want to make sure it's good.

Jen LaForge 1:35

I love that. And that's the fire that we appreciate at the boardroom because Regia does not hold back when she uh when she is concerned about the customer journey, which is what we want. Um, let's set the stage before we dive right in here, though. Um, seven years here at Rackchin, what would you say has changed the most in terms of customer engagement within our space?

Reja Mulloor 1:57

I would say um what I've seen is that as time goes on and as like technology grows, customers are becoming more and more savvy about what who they're buying through and especially their data. So what I've seen happen more and more often is people questioning. I don't know if I want to engage because I don't know what you're doing with my data. And so we actually have had to work a little bit harder at ensuring that everything's secure, but also that our customers know that it's safe and that we're only using their information to provide a better experience. I I can say that's true of me too. I'm very hesitant when I sign up for anything on what it is I'm exchanging. Like, do you want my firstborn? And what am I getting in exchange for that? Because it's a very different universe now.

Jen LaForge 2:51

Absolutely. Um, in terms of a different universe, um, your evil twin, I would say, is the acquisition side. Um, but brands are finding far more value in retaining customers, not negating the value on the acquisition side, still very important. But why do you think the value is shifting towards retention now?

Reja Mulloor 3:12

It's, I mean, almost anyone that's doing growth and acquisition knows how expensive it can be. So if you're taking time and effort to grow the customers that have already bought in and had the good experience, it's a lot easier and it's a lot less expensive to grow that experience and grow that customer than it is to explain what value you're offering from to somebody that knows nothing about you.

Jen LaForge 3:39

Talking about not knowing anything about you when you have a new customer, very limited data about who they are. And so trying to engage with them, especially early on, is really difficult and critical. So, what would you say brands that are really struggling with engagement with their members, likely it's happening within that early moment where you don't know each other, what are they, what are they doing wrong? Or what should they be doing to kind of help with that struggle?

Reja Mulloor 4:09

This might sound stupid or like elementary, but ask them. Brands don't ask, don't request feedback enough, and if and when they do, don't do anything with it. So asking your customers why they're not engaging is the first most obvious step, but not enough brands are doing it. And the second thing is is actually taking the time to do the due diligence with the data. Um, anyone that knows me knows I'm all about the data. And so every every company knows who their best customers are and looking at what makes them their best customer and understanding how to get everybody else to that point. Um and in addition to that, like taking those best customers and nurturing them too, to go back to the what's more, you know, when it's more valuable to retain customers, like looking at your best customers and making sure that they remain your best customers.

Jen LaForge 5:03

Okay, so you said talk to them. That opens up a whole world of challenges in of itself, because when we talk about privacy and uh especially in Canada Castle and anti-spam legislations, you can't just send everyone an email. So you're cutting your base down based on just not being able to actually speak to them. Then within that base, there's only so many that are going to respond. So uh, for you, someone who's now getting a piece of the pie and some feedback, to generalize that seems a little bit biased, biased. And to plan your entire engagement or the customer journey on that seems kind of blind. How do you take what you get? You know where I'm going with this.

Reja Mulloor 5:51

So that you're like, how do you how do you decide with what little you have? So I think it it is actually looking at the what little you have and optimizing against the rest of your audience. But I think also there are tools that are available that are at everyone's disposal that you can use even when you might not like what they provide, in that we use Trustpilot, which is a third-party um company that will ask those questions for you. People are more inclined to give those answers when they really truly feel like it's anonymous and when they really truly feel like they want to put their name against it. The other place to look is Reddit. Um, it's rich with feedback. People love to talk. They love to talk about themselves, they love to talk about their experiences. Look at that and take it for what it is. If people have had a bad experience, dive in and figure out why. Is it a one-off? Is it a pattern? Um, and then use those learnings against that audience, the mystery audience, in the hopes that maybe you can re-engage them.

Jen LaForge 6:54

What what would you say is more value for you as someone who's who's driving this engagement? The bad feedback that's telling you where we're going wrong, or the positive feedback? Like how do which one's more valuable?

Reja Mulloor 7:07

It's it's a tough question because the position I'm in, I can only affect so much. So a lot of the negative experiences might revolve around product and product experience. And, you know, as as true with any large company, trying to make those kinds of major shifts will take time and effort and planning, et cetera, et cetera. So I look for, I mean, we've always been very agile here. We're like kind of bootstrapped in Canada. So I look for where I can affect an a final sort of outcome within what I have available at my sort of um for me. So I kind of look at, okay, these people are correct in that this experience is terrible. How can I make that better from within my world?

Jen LaForge 7:53

And then actually try to do that. And then you send that email the product. I know you.

Reja Mulloor 8:00

There's in fact an entire page.

Jen LaForge 8:03

You don't stop there again. This is why why we love having you here voice at the table. Um, so so you you're talking about this engagement, you know, throwing them through a journey, complete a transaction. That's very different than building a real relationship and engagement. So, what do you think is the difference between driving a transaction and creating engagement and a relationship with our members?

Reja Mulloor 8:30

I think the biggest way we can create that relationship is to surprise and delight. Like not enough companies are doing that, we us included. Um, and because you're right, the the way we engage is actually having them do the transaction through us. But we want them to always be thinking about us and how do we how do we do that? Um, and it's by providing, especially going back to the best customers, by providing those best customers reasons uh to stay. It's just the surprise and delight, like here's a um an experience or bonus for you because you're awesome. Um and the thing that's great about doing that when we do create that relationship and that sort of good feeling, is that then they want to tell everybody about it. And that is a huge, that's the biggest tool for us is going back to the acquisition and how expensive it can be. It's not that expensive when people are telling others about it and telling them doing the, you know, selling for you. You're obviously gonna buy into a product or service that your friend is into versus seeing an ad online and just switching, you know, trading your data for you, or your firstborn child.

Jen LaForge 9:42

Right, or your firstborn. Um, I'm gonna pause there because I want to jump over. You're talking about referrals now. Obviously, very, very highly effective uh channel for new member acquisition. They become your your most savvy members. Why are is a referral channel so important to a company or a brand? And then what is our referral program?

Reja Mulloor 10:05

Referral program is so important because it's not only um having your customers advertise and sell for you essentially, but it also is a good uh indicator of how well the experience is working for them too. If you have a really strong referral program and suddenly, you know, it all drops, that is an indicator that something's broken, that something's wrong. And so it it you can look into, you know, where's the experience dropping? But more importantly, as I was saying before, I'm much more likely to buy into a product or service that my friend tells me about, um, especially when they're so passionate about it, especially in today's environment where like everybody's really looking to get their dollar to go further, inflation and wars and and all of the, you know, yeah crazy, crazy prices on food, et cetera. Anywhere someone can save a dollar is going to be really valued. And on top of that, having someone you know tell you about it costs the company next to nothing relative to putting an ad out, you know, a digital ad out or a commercial or whatever that is. So it's always going to be a much lower cost of acquisition. And the lifetime value of all of those customers is going to be significantly longer and more valuable to the company. Our referral program is quite rich. It's usually $30 for the referer and the referee. So sometimes we will increase that bonus so that it's $10 to potentially more than that dollars richer for both the referer and the referee. Um and it's and it's at the risk of sounding, again, simplified. It's easy and it's it's a no-brainer. It really is that simple. So I've been working here for seven years. I've had this conversation with more people than I can count. And everybody's sort of reaction is that sounds a little too good to be true. It's not. I can tell you after having run the program and whatever, it really is that simple. You sign up using your referrers code, you spend, you know, a minimum amount, which is always any online purchase is always more than $30 or $40. And then you get sent a check within two weeks, or even faster than that if you get direct deposit. So it's it's that easy, it's that simple, and then it's that real.

Jen LaForge 12:34

So you you've 10 friends and family to sign up that's $300 in your pocket. Easy. Yeah. Easy money. So fantastic. Um, going back a little bit now, you were talking about uh the value of retention versus acquisition, and you you made a comment about how you want them to still think about us after the transaction, which is a big thing that we try to do here is create that habit, right? So don't forget to click at Rackin before you go shopping so you can earn that cash back. It's a little bit of a muscle you've got to build on. Um, and so how would you say habits form through your engagements and the work that you're doing? So you create a habit.

Reja Mulloor 13:15

Yeah. So I mean, ideally, I have the opportunity to communicate with you. So one of the things we have even too, we have tools too to make it easier for customers like our browser extension, so that when you are shopping online on your on your desktop, you never forget because the extension tells you, hey, this retailer's on Racketton, you can save X percent. No reason not to click. Literally, no reason not to click. In addition to that, I will try to send out what I do is specific, is very audience specific, so that if I think this message is valuable to you specifically, I would like to communicate it to you. For example, we want to tell members who have identified favorite stores when those favorite stores are at elevated cashback. So if you have the app, you will get a push notification that says, hey, your favorite store, Old Navy, is at elevated cashback today. It ends soon. You might want to go shopping. So I'm trying to also help remind them that like if you had some stuff in your cart, now is the time to check out.

Jen LaForge 14:20

Yeah. Okay. So is there a one one singular place within that customer journey that you get to and they're now loyal? Or is that depending on the customer and how challenging is it to find like the sweet spot? And is there one?

Reja Mulloor 14:38

In my opinion, and I answer this as a retention marketer and also as a consumer, no. Because you can have the greatest experience for decades, but then you have that one crappy experience, and that informs everything going forward. So you want to make sure that every experience is a positive one. And even if it's not, it's addressed in a way that has the customer still feel like they're valued and that you're valuing their business and their feedback and you're doing something about it because it's gonna happen. You're you're gonna be loyal to all kinds of brands for a certain amount of time, and there's going to be a bad experience. It's really how is it managed?

Jen LaForge 15:18

How is it handled, whether or not you would stay? Um, I'm gonna pivot, but I have to sum up this round of questions. You sound like a superhero for our consumers because you are actively trying to isolate those bad moments, fix those bad moments, communicate with products so that they can fix surprise, delight them. You want to talk to them, you want them to think about us. Um, you really do sound like you care so much about our consumers. And I'm glad and I hope they hear this because you can sometimes feel like companies are the bad guy and they just want your money. When you sit and listen to you, Reja, talk about how important retaining customers are, at least to Raccutin, it really does sound like a very nurturing and caring relationship. Is everyone treating retention the same way, do you think? Or is that something you know brands should be leaning more into?

Reja Mulloor 16:13

Um, I'm gonna go with, again, a hard no on that. Um, there are, and and you know, if this was ours, I could list, you know, all the brands and and sort of not so great experiences I've had where you've provided feedback or you've provided uh your your negative experience and nothing comes back. Like even just acknowledgement is something. Um and the opportunity is endless uh to make to make that better.

Jen LaForge 16:41

I think we had uh Elizabeth McNeil, who uh was very passionate about member services and how we should be treating our customer service and our member services as uh an opportunity because we have their attention, we have an opportunity to fix things and communicate with them. Um, so it sounds like you're saying the same things. Look at these moments as fresh opportunities to kind of rebuild and start fresh.

Reja Mulloor 17:06

Yeah. And and you know what? Even remember them in the future if you're building something that's gonna address their issue and have them as part of a focus group, because then it really tells them not only did you take my feedback, you're doing something about it, and you still want me to participate. Like that person is not only gonna participate, they're gonna tell all their friends, they're gonna post it on social. And as everyone knows, um negative experiences travel far and wide very quickly this day and age. And you wanna be able to sort of control that narrative, even if it starts out not so positive. Um, and there are some brands that are doing that well too, which is great. But in general, um, like I said, I could list several experiences where I've had no response.

Jen LaForge 17:52

Part of me feels like with our over 8 million members at Racquutin, you know all of their names. That's that's no, I know you don't, but um so that talking about your retention being so valuable, what do you think breaks when a brand or a company leans too far on the acquisition side and kind of forgets that acquisition piece when they're not in balanced? I mean, what really breaks in that scenario?

Reja Mulloor 18:19

I mean, literally loyalty. Uh, why am I staying with you when when I get the the message of here's this awesome deal, but it's for new customers only. Right. What about your I've been part of your service or product, whatever, for 20 plus years. And I'm thinking about telco just in my head. Like what's in it for me? Um, it's turned into a commodity, so I can easily switch and jump back and forth. Why should I stay? And not enough brands are giving that value to the existing customer, and they're putting all that time and energy and money into acquisition, and that's what they're losing. They're losing the customer. The customer has options. And this day and age, when they want their dollar to go further, they want it to go to a company that actually values that dollar. In fact, I think most consumers are willing to spend a touch more to give a smaller, potentially smaller company their dollar versus making a billion trillion dollar company four dollars extra. I want my dollar to go to the company that values it. Um, and that's your opportunity. That as a brand, as a as a service is the opportunity for you to make sure that that extra dollar goes to them and not their competitor. And if you're spending all your time, effort, and strategy on acquisition, you're missing that opportunity. And it doesn't even cost that much time or money.

Jen LaForge 19:50

I think we've said a few times here at least that heavy acquisition without the retention is like filling a bucket with holes. And so you're just wasting a whole lot of that acquisition effort by not focusing on how to really keep them and drive that engagement. Now, when you're building these engagement strategies and trying to get a customer into your very loyal space and interact with you, there's gotta be some trade-offs. What are some of the trade-offs that you have to anticipate or think about when you're building these customer engagement strategies? I think we have to think about the experience.

Reja Mulloor 20:27

The experience is not going to be the same for every customer, unfortunately. Like in a company like ours, where cashback varies greatly across retailers, I can provide a better experience to somebody that's more interested in those products and services with those higher cashback retailers than somebody that is really only looking at a small sort of category or a small product or whatever. And so you're trying to tailor those offers to make sure everybody's happy, but there's always going to be a trade-off. At some point, I need critical mass in order to justify doing those things. And if the audience is too small, I need to sort of figure out where's the ROI on this. Because that is, at the end of the day, it is a business. And, you know, we need to see the ROI and where we're investing. And sometimes the the smaller people in what are however you that's defined may not get as much attention as as you'd like them to, but that's the trade-off.

Jen LaForge 21:26

Okay. So you you can't make everyone happy. You can't make everyone happy.

Reja Mulloor 21:31

I hear you. It applies to all things in life.

Jen LaForge 21:34

Yeah, that's a blanket statement. You cannot make everyone happy all of the time. Um, but how do you know uh that you're doing a good job? Like what's what points in the data are you really looking at that says we have treated this customer the way they deserve? They are loyal to us and we have a strong relationship.

Reja Mulloor 21:51

Yeah, so we have specific, very specific KPIs for that. It's not just orders and frequency of orders and engagement in what. That looks like it those are the sort of top two. Um, but even visits, even coming to our site and remembering about us, even clicking on those merchants, tells me they're thinking about us and they're happy because if they weren't, they wouldn't be here. So the other way, you know, is again by the feedback, if you're asking them. Um, I actually look at, so again, going to Trustpilot, I actually look at what that feedback is, and I love to see the feed, the the quotes that are specific around this isn't a scam. It's like this is the message we're trying to get across, and we can't. And our the best people to get that message across is our happy customers. And so I love to see those kinds of comments of like, I saved ta I saved cash on something I was doing anyway. Like that tells me it's working. I also, we also have KPIs um around the how long somebody's, you know, with the company and and how long they've been ordering through us and active through us. Um, and another great sort of metric would be looking at referrals. Has this person referred? Because I know you're happy, obviously, if you're telling everybody about this. Yeah.

Jen LaForge 23:13

He do love your referral program. Um, okay, so we're gonna switch uh a little bit here, and I need to power up for this one. Get ready. Soon I have sorry. Load up, load up. Um, but I'm gonna switch over to AI because we've been talking about uh retention and the importance of building loyalty as if the game's the same as it was five years ago. It's not. AI is changing every game on the planet. So when you think about how that customer journey and the engagement, how they're searching, how they're shopping, how they're behaving online and interacting with companies, what do you think is um the number one shift in how you now have to interact with them because of AI?

Reja Mulloor 23:56

I think AI can be really useful in providing the right experience at the right time to the right member. Um, when they're on our site, as mentioned before, it's it, those are all owned by us. So we have a better lens of what people are doing, where they might go next, and actually using AI to potentially predict what is the next best action, what is the next best um offer, even for the for these customers, and being able to tailor an experience around what that looks like. The the experience might not be always offering dollars. It might just be surfacing the right merchants at the right time and be making it easier for a member to go shopping and save money.

Jen LaForge 24:47

Do you think in your world, obviously you want to be able to talk to these consumers, but you can't overwhelm them. And personalization and using AI to predict things should make that much easier. But is there a risk as we are evolving out of these old ways of communication and interaction into the new? Like, what is the risk of just overwhelming our consumers in this transition?

Reja Mulloor 25:12

Yeah, there's something I've, you know, the team knows that I call the creep factor, which is when you go in knowing sort of too much and you you don't want to make people uncomfortable in that. How did you know that I did X, Y, Z? I whatever. How you don't want to make them feel kind of overwhelmed in this way, because as I mentioned kind of earlier, everyone's really particular about their data and what companies know about them and how companies are using it. I want to make sure we're using their data in a way that exclusively benefits them and them only, because by them having a good experience, we have a good experience.

Jen LaForge 25:50

Well, you were talking about the creep factor. Yeah. And I want to pause there because the creep, it's very real. I think we all experience it. We have a side conversation with someone, and next thing all of our algorithms and feeds have changed. Sometimes I've just thought it and suddenly my algorithm and my feeds have changed, and that's super creepy. But also feel like we're becoming almost numb to the the creepy effect that um I'm gonna use that from now on.

Reja Mulloor 26:19

Yeah.

Jen LaForge 26:19

Um so so talk to that. Like, is there a world where we're just gonna get used to companies knowing stuff about us and being creeped at?

Reja Mulloor 26:27

I I think yes. Um, we do have to sort of adopt the idea that our data is a commodity and companies are using it. Hopefully they're using it in a way that benefits you also. Um, but be be savvy about it, be vocal about it. If you're not comfortable with how a company is using your data, vocalize it. And there are laws to protect consumers for that kind of thing. And though you might have to get used to it, it is your, it is your, it is a currency. It is your currency and you can use it to your advantage too.

Jen LaForge 27:01

Yeah, there is uh, in fact, a way where you can contact any company, at least here in Canada, and request all of your data to be deleted and wiped clean with confirmation and receive what data they have. So if you're curious to say what data of mind do you have, you can actually request that and have them wipe it out of their database. And I think they have like 10 days to act on that. And so you know, there should be a safety in that. If you do feel like that creep, creepy effect is getting a little too strong, um, then then there is a way, and you're saying consumers should be very vocal about that. Yeah. But then also brands should be very conscious of not putting themselves in that position and respecting it. It is a fine balance. It you want to make sure you're not hitting the creep with the creep factor. But do you let's um blanket like the the change of AI overall? Um, I'd love to hear just your opinion on like what you think AI is going to do to the entire landscape of customer retention. Make it easier, make it harder, change all of our tools and strategies. Like what's what's coming? And do you think?

Reja Mulloor 28:06

I think, I think AI will have a huge effect on personalization to speak to what we were talking about earlier, but personalization in the right way. Um, we can't, as we were saying earlier, you you can't be everything to everyone. You can't make everyone happy. I think at some point, AI might be able to do that with respect to your shopping habits and shopping behavior. Again, surfacing the right product or service at the right time with the right deal. Um, that would be a pleasant experience for me, actually, if I'm shopping for specific kind of shoes and I put that in AI, and AI gives me a whole list of shoes that I'm interested in, colors, price point, um, even geography. AI will make all of that much more accessible. Um, but there's always gonna be the the questionable factor of like, is this full information? Is this the correct information? Do I need to do more due diligence? I think AI will get better at that, but there should always be the should I be questioning this?

Jen LaForge 29:15

Yeah. Yeah, you're you're making me question a lot of things. This wasn't on the script at all. This is actually a personal question I've been fumbling around in my head with for a while. When I and I just won't play with this with you for a bit. When it comes to personalization and AI, there's a part of me that thinks two things. One, most people don't really know themselves. And so the the data that AI is picking up and like defining this person around, there could be a mismatch of what's true to me. And the other side of that is now they're sending me all these things they think I like. And so, where's discovery fall into that? So now suddenly my world has gotten much smaller, and it's just a subset of products that are now supposedly perfect for me and whoever I am. Like this is a very confusing world we're entering into. So, what are your thoughts on how personalization and discovery with a consumer kind of mingles together?

Reja Mulloor 30:16

I think as long as the the gates are made obvious to consumers, then that is a happy way to enter into this world. Meaning AI and and those um platforms are providing consumers a way to control certain things. So um, yes, that's happened to me before too, where like I click on one thing because a friend is interested, and now suddenly my whole feed is this thing. If there are easy ways to engage with AI to say, I want more of this, I don't want more of this, that is much more specific than the little checkbox or whatever. It is you can tailor the experience to you. At some point, that becomes very valuable. The only thing to be wary of is what you're is the firstborn. Yeah. Because at this point, you are tailoring your experience so specifically that it is so specific to you that now those platforms really understand who you are, whether or not you do. Yeah. And what they're going to do with that is kind of a mystery. So this that's where we're at now. So, you know, come 10 years from now, you know, I'm I'm I know as a consumer I'm gonna want control. Yeah.

Jen LaForge 31:36

So that leads to expectations, consumer expectations. Put on your consumer hat now, not the retention hat now. What what do you think consumers are going to be expecting about loyalty through these changes? Like, how is that standard gonna change to you?

Reja Mulloor 31:51

I think it should get easier as a consumer for me to be loyal with any sort with any company or a brand, um, because you should know a lot about me exclusively based on how I'm interacting with you and your brand online. That said, what I also expect is more richer programs. What we're seeing now is I'm, you know, constantly getting emails from loyalty programs and brands saying, our program has changed. You now get less for what you used to have. And consumers are just like, there are only so many dollars to be split. The wallet can only be split so many ways. You want to make sure you've captured your place in that wallet. And the harder you make it, programs changing, less rich, less rich programs, then you risk losing them altogether because they need their dollar to go further. And that's true now more than ever, and will be in the future. Um, I think, I think again, it's an opportunity because it's actually a time when brands can actually be giving more in order to secure that loyalty for five years in the future.

Jen LaForge 33:06

Agree. I I would stand behind those statements 100%. Um, what a lot of what we talk about here with my guests is value. So I want to pivot over there and ask you what your definition of value is. And then I have a follow-up question there.

Reja Mulloor 33:19

My definition of value is how I feel post-transaction. Oh, that's a new one. If I have a feeling of joy and excitement because so for me, sorry, for me specifically, okay, I love a good deal. When I get a good deal, I tell everybody about it because I'm so proud of the good deal. I'm not the person that buys like designer clothes and and stuff and and needs to tout that. Like I'm really more like, I got this thing at this price and I negotiated the crap out of it. Five dollars. Yeah. And it's that, that's when I know I got value because it was on my terms. Especially when I like I have so many people that come to me and are like and are with me even in a retail experience and are surprised when I ask for a discount or a better deal or whatever, an opportunity for me to save money. People that are sometimes embarrassed. Um, but it's you never know unless you ask. And if I ask and it works, I get that feeling, that high of like that is good, that is good value for my dollar because I defined it.

Jen LaForge 34:34

I do think more people should be like Regg in terms of just asking. Yeah. And getting that no. It's it's okay to get that no, because most of the time there is a yes.

Reja Mulloor 34:45

Most of the time there is a yes. I can tell you from experience.

Jen LaForge 34:48

Yes, there's always a yes. So be brave and say, hey, this does meet my expectations. I want X off, or what else can you do for me? I think you see that a lot in car lots.

Reja Mulloor 34:58

Um, but it's not the same thing.

Jen LaForge 35:00

But it can happen anywhere. It can happen anywhere.

Reja Mulloor 35:02

It really can, even when you don't think I've had people tell me, like, I'm gonna take you the next time I go negotiate a car because Well, you're com you're gonna come, I'm bringing you everywhere with me.

Jen LaForge 35:12

Um, so with the question of value, one of the things we're talking about is being more intentional in the loyalty programs that you are joining and making sure you're stacking them for the most value. But it doesn't mean get every loyalty program in the country and try and maximize all of them and have a wallet this sick and pull out all these cards. Being very intentional with your own personal definition of value, let's add in the layer of retention and how that's going to help people decide what those top three programs are going to be. How do they think about the retention side and what that cuss that that company is trying to do for their relationship in that decision making?

Reja Mulloor 35:54

So I think when companies provide that surprise and delight for their best customers, no matter what, their program is going to land in that top three, even if the program is less rewarding, not by significant a significant amount, but less rewarding or maybe has some obstacles that are not ideal. Um, once you build that brand loyalty, you want your dollar to go to them no matter what. And as long as the program makes sense for you and you're investing in the entire customer relationship, yours will always be in the top three. Um, and even on that note, one of the companies I was thinking about that does a really good job at this is Chewy. They they will, you know, send you a hand-painted picture of your pet just because, and it's just it's just surprise and delight. Even if you've decided you're going to invest in another company for food or whatever, you will actively switch and go back, even if you're paying a little bit more because you know that company values you, your pet, your the relationship between you two, and the relationship you have with that company. So even if it doesn't look as rich, that's who you want to give your dollar to.

Jen LaForge 37:12

I think pet companies do a really great job of creating that personalized relationship because they truly understand the value of that relationship with your pet, which is so unique in this world and probably the strongest love yet to exist on this planet for a lot of people. I mean, so I think I you're right. I think a lot of pet companies do it very, very well.

Reja Mulloor 37:35

Yeah. And just recognizing that that's not tangible. That's not uh KPI. And when you are investing in those things, that's where loyalty really becomes becomes a game changer because that loyalty won't be broken, assuming you don't screw it up.

Jen LaForge 37:53

So I'm gonna I I wanna end it on two last things. The first one is I'd like for you to give everybody one red flag and one green flag that they should keep an eye out for with a company interacting with them, trying to build a relationship that they will really help them understand how healthy that relationship is. So, what's a green flag and a red flag? So I'm gonna go back to the what I was saying earlier of the red flag.

Reja Mulloor 38:19

If and when you have a negative experience and it is not addressed in a way that makes sense for you, red flag. That it's not gonna get better from there. And a green flag, I would say, is is if you get the value feeling and it just builds every time you engage with that company, whatever that engagement looks like. If you feel good post-transaction or engagement, then there's no reason you wouldn't continue with that relationship.

Jen LaForge 38:48

One of the things that drives me crazy is when a company sends me the 14th email with the same message, but slightly more urgent, slightly more love-balming. And I'm like, guys, I know I'm done. And I've now unsubscribed and completely abandoned that brand. What when do you stop? And this wasn't the second part, but I no, I I do that sometimes. So, like, when do you stop though? When do you they they don't, they're not interested in us?

Reja Mulloor 39:16

I don't think there's any finite sort of this date and time and this is how you stop, whatever. It's it's it's figuring it out through experience. It's communicating and then figuring out at this point, is when they do certain actions that you would consider deal breakers, like unsubscribing. Then I need to stop doing this. And unfortunately, a lot of that is just through trial and error, which we do a lot of here. Everything I do is some sort of test built into it because I want to always be able to be providing an optimal experience.

Jen LaForge 39:47

So, yeah. So uh that was a gift for you. Now a gift for me. And uh, this has been the back of my head since we're talking about AI and algorithms, how they pick up our conversations. Um, in our meeting yesterday, a bunch of us got excited because Majuri SummerSale had started. And so it was a big conversation. I'm just curious, did you go home and you know, stand next to your husband, your partner's phone and let it know that Majuri Summer Sale is on and that you're really interested in the three-piece. You know, do you do that?

Reja Mulloor 40:20

I do not. I do not, because I'm really about I want the experience. I like shopping. I I want that retail experience. So that is part of the joy for me. Uh, we were talking about this last week. There is a, I think, Korean company providing the entire retail experience that's fake. Yes. And then they don't it goes right up to shipping and it should be at your door, and then it's not there. It's so you can ex feel the experience. For me, that's definitely part of the experience. But then it showing up at the door is like that's your that's the climax. That's like that app.

Jen LaForge 40:56

I'm especially interested in those dopamine fake shopping um apps that are coming out because I'm an abandoned carter. Um I shop all of the time, but I'm very frugal and I've got you know my environmental concerns. Do I need this? Is it gonna last? Is it quality? But I load up carts every day and just abandon them.

Reja Mulloor 41:14

So for me, it would really work, but you No, I need the whole, but I need the whole experience. I need the shopping too. I need I need to be able to select it and look at it in different ways. I need to think about it.

Jen LaForge 41:25

You know, so there you go. Well, there you have it, folks. We talked about the importance of retention uh with members. It is actually a symbiotic relationship of true value that a good company puts a lot of weight and attention on. Very thankful to have you here at Rackchin.

Reja Mulloor 41:42

Thank you.

Jen LaForge 41:43

Yeah, how you take care of our members. Um, if anyone has questions uh or would like to provide Regia with feedback that she so loves and desires to help us be better, um by all means uh hit us up LinkedIn Slack Regimure, uh Director of Engagement here at Rackchin. Thank you again.

Reja Mulloor 42:01

You're very welcome. It was my pleasure. I love talking about things I'm passionate about. Perfect. And that's it. This episode of Stacked. If you found this useful, follow along as we interview leaders shaping the future of retail and learn how value really works behind the scenes. And if there's a topic you want us to unpack, I'd love to hear from you. See you next time.