Jen LaForge 0:00

Welcome uh to Stacked. I'm so glad to have you. Uh for the audience, it's a quick hit today. We don't have a lot of time, but I am joined two for one, Steve and Tom with Vengo. We are live at DealMaker right now. I had to pull these two gentlemen in to talk. First, I want to learn about Vengo, your roles there, talk a little bit about the beautiful journey you've had scaling it, um, and then kind of tie it into the theme uh of Stack. So let's jump in really quickly. Tom, I'll hand it over to you. Can you tell us who Vengo is and then what part do you two play?

Tom De Iulis 0:34

Sure, sure. So Vengo provides um largely employee discount programs. That's our big space. We also provide programs in the member and customer space, largely based around value add and discounts with brand partners that we work with Rackerton a lot with and uh so happen to be here today. It's a great, great effect. We'll just plug for Rackerton, great partner of ours for many, many years. So that's what Vango has done. We've scaled an audience really in that in that employee member space, closed audience across the country, and have scaled out that way, and that's what we we bring to uh to to the brand part.

Jen LaForge 1:07

So we we do the same thing, but I'm really on that consumer-facing side, and you're the employee perks closed door side. But we are cousins, really.

Tom De Iulis 1:16

Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, and I think to start, uh you know, instead of doing this the outbound public-facing way, we we we wanted to build on that trust that we knew these different groups had with those bases, and we use that as sort of our trust-building exercise to to help the brands then leverage that and come in and and uh and promote and do what they will and bring their value on top of it. So that that's been the thing. So and I've been with you know, quick there for a very long time and then founder and LCO then go here. Canada. And uh it's been a very interesting and uh very interesting journey along the way. And I'll pass it over to Steve quick.

Steve Elsdon 1:55

Yeah, so as VP of uh Brandon Merchant Partnerships, my responsibility is primarily with the sales team in in finding the brands that people want across the categories that are important to them, right? So when you think about employees and what they're looking for, it's a very big cross-section of everything from travel uh to health and financial and everything in between. And a shift of recent has really been more around the health side of things, right? Uh mental health, financial health, physical health. So uh that category um has increased growth and further potential. So we're exploring that with a lot of things that are happening at, you know, Calm app and things of that nature. Um, but ultimately, you know, the focus for our team is to really look at uh what is important to the employees, what are they looking for? Everything from everyday savings to the larger, more expensive items, and everything in between is something that we really try to fill that gap for the assortment mix.

Jen LaForge 2:48

That's perfect. You you had mentioned that shift to health becoming more important. And one of the things we talk about on stacked is value and how each individual really does have a definition, a different definition of value. And so I think what you just highlighted is a larger transition in and a group of people's value shifting, which I think we're seeing more and more today, which is towards health. Can you speak to that a little bit in terms of how it's changed maybe the percentage of business or attention that you are putting in that area for Vengo?

Steve Elsdon 3:21

Yeah. So I think if you think about what the definition of that health or perks that might fall into that, um, that's expanded. Previously it might have been, you know, things you would find at a pharmacy or to make you feel better, you know, Dr. Ho's, you know, massage therapy, et cetera. Um, for us, that's expanded to travel, which offers people mindfulness, peace of mind. It might not even just be going to New York City, but it might be a yoga retreat in Italy as an example. So that definition has changed and is personalized by everybody. So we've had to understand that and how people are responding to what health means to them. And then you couple that with, you know, what categories can fall into that and then where the savings might be. In terms of the the changing within our platform, I would say it's, you know, I'll call it maybe about 25 to 30 percent. It's a it's a little bit of a uh uh hard to put a number on it. But um when I look at the traffic that goes to those categories and collectively what we think might fit into health, everything from running shoes to clothing, et cetera, um, because that definition is expanded, it's now touching different categories. But you'll see uh even in our promotional calendars, like when we when we offer themes and whatnot to our advertisers, um we have an increased amount in health and we'll do so uh in 2027 as well. Continued.

Jen LaForge 4:35

Do you think any brand that that could be pivoting in this direction should right now? Is it a is it a moment, a movement?

Tom De Iulis 4:44

Well, I mean, we're in a specific space and community that we service where it is very top of mind. We we come in very much through HR and benefits in our world. So you see us expanding that way too as a business. But I you know it is interesting because you you can think about a broader product spectrum when you think about lifestyle spending accounts and wellness spending accounts too, which which we see that we can we can give people more value in those streams too, by by joining our program with it. Right. So there's that sort of loyalty piece where in a very stacked kind of way. We look at it, we look at things in a very stacked way. When I when I was doing a little bit of our homework on what you talk about all the time, we are very much in that mentality. It's all about that.

Jen LaForge 5:26

It's all about stacking.

Tom De Iulis 5:27

It's all yeah, that is the position we're in to be able to facilitate and bring value that way and help people with their different programs and whatever they want to achieve it. You know, we were talking earlier, whatever part of the model. Because we can help out there because of the structure that we we built that way to do it.

Jen LaForge 5:43

Well, thank you for the unpaid sponsorship of the stacked concept. Um, Tom, I was saying earlier I really wanted to ask about uh your journey because for more than two decades, you've been scaling and growing Vengo. Can I ask you what it was like in the beginning when you first walked in here? I mean, what did it look like? How big was it? What was your focus and what was your mandate?

Tom De Iulis 6:07

Yeah, I mean I mean, it's been a long time and a lot has changed. The technology, technology has changed, and with that, the the consumer has changed a lot. There were early days, and it yeah, it's 20 odd years, but you're going back to almost birth of internet time, quite honestly. It's not that long ago, especially from a consumer perspective. In the early days, we could be the first app or program that some people were coming online to take advantage of. That's how far back some of it goes. So we've seen that, you know, from the consumer side, they always wanted value. That never changes. They're definitely more savvy, they definitely know how to get it more quickly. And we've just had to continually move with it. You just keep getting better at drawing. And if the value is good, look how to make it better. If there's no value in the channel where they're not shopping that way or they're not consuming that way, then we're gonna pivot too and just be where they are. It's our job to be where they are. We're not in a position to be shifting shopping behavior necessarily, but we can amplify it and move it around. So that's how we work.

Jen LaForge 7:10

What what do you think? Um, if we were to compare, like in this shared space, my world versus yours, what would be the the largest or the biggest challenge I would face if I stepped into that s onto that side?

Tom De Iulis 7:25

Oh, I mean, our challenge, maybe it's the same as everybody's challenge, attention.

Jen LaForge 7:29

Okay.

Tom De Iulis 7:30

Engagement, attention, always. That's always the um the trick. So you know, every I mean at the end of the day, with without that, there's there's nothing. You need a little bit of uh engagement and attention to what you need to do.

Steve Elsdon 7:44

Yeah, I think there's there's also the increased need for personalization. Right. So as as part of that value proposition, we're giving them a platform to shop on. There's there's a built-in expectation that yes, we can shotgun everything and everything can be for everybody, but the reality is it's not. And every individual wants to be recognized or heard and and you know, seen for their own attributes and characteristics. We try to encourage our brands to do the same, everything from how they present the creative to the communication and the messaging, um, even to the offering, um, expanding product categories instead of having just one offer of 20% off site wide. Why don't we look at it and talk about the kids, accessories, women, men, you know, et cetera? So we find that being able to do that, you can speak to a larger audience, but you get the sense of when you can use algorithms to understand how people are shopping their behaviors on the site of what you can effectively serve them, right? Programmatically identify what it is that's meaningful to them and then give it back. It's better for the brand, it's higher propensity to purchase, it leads to better engagement and of course just time on site, et cetera. So we also have to take a look at what does that mean? What does value to you mean versus Tom or myself, and how are we serving that up to you and making the platform a destination or shopping tool?

Jen LaForge 9:03

Thank you. I appreciate that because you just reframed my entire thinking. And I had admittedly completely dismissed the importance of personalization because of where you sit within that value chain and you are with the employers and you're with the benefits and you're tied to HR. And um, I was a bit amiss in not connecting just how personal that makes your role and your identity with your brand partner. So thank you for correcting the way I was thinking. Um, on that one, uh, even more respect for what Vengo is doing then um and how hard you worked on this. Now, now, in that over two decades, how long, Steve, have you been along the ride with Tom? Just under five years. Just under five years? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Where'd you find him?

Tom De Iulis 9:50

I mean, it's a great, it is a great story. Steve was on the other side. Steve was a client of ours, an advertising customer of ours. And Steve would always have these great ideas. I want to try this, I want to do that. So um, the gentleman who's working with Steve on our team says, Tom, you have to talk to Steve. So he's got these great ideas, and I mean, and we would always be open to try. I mean, uh, you know, let's see. Let's see if we can do that. If if if someone's gonna, if a partner's gonna push us, and we were happy to try that out. Okay. Um that's always worked out well. And then at some point it just made sense that, you know, I think you should really be over here. We were making some significant changes to be, you know, I appreciate you appreciating what we're after. I mean, we have to accommodate what advertisers of brand want to do and service the the customer on the other side in a benefits kind of way. So we do have to ride this sort of line in the middle. And we were changing the platform quite a bit to help really both, but you know, do a little bit more to help the advertisers and have a realization that we should do a little bit more of that because it'll bring more value for everybody. Right. And and then uh Steve was just the right person to do that. So we've got this platform, I don't know what to do. Yeah. So the goal is always bring in bring in someone who can. And uh, and it was uh, you know, a great marriage so far. So it's been fantastic.

Jen LaForge 11:04

Well, I uh I'm glad you brought Steve over. Um I met him at a bar at another conference. See, that would have been more interesting stories than that would have been. Yeah, no, we were uh we were at uh DealMaker uh UI or Rack and Optimism conference this past year. And um we didn't just meet at the bar, we had some working sessions and whatnot. And uh and I will say one of the most uh impactful conversations and relationships I had at the entire conference when we were there. So I'm very glad to see you uh at the table here today. When you're talking about testing and these ideas, but that fine line you have to walk because of how century you are. Um I I mean, what happens uh, you know, to your business if that test or idea goes poorly or wrong or breaks? How much lat well, so they always do, but like how much latitude do you have given that that fine line you're in? Is there more risk for you?

Tom De Iulis 12:05

Yeah, yeah. I mean, well, those considerations we made beforehand, I would think. Really? And it's a lot of times it's it's it's it's content driven more than anything where the lines are, right? Okay. Um, you know, there's things that are just offside. And and really we allow for a very flexible platform where both sides are agreeable into what that content may be, right? To eat, right? You can, you know, certain brand partners will want to be in certain places and certain audiences and and employee groups do not want certain things. And that's how they operate as well. Um so really uh it's just part of our DNA just because we've been doing that for so long. Like those sort of things just get factored in right at the front end. Like we're usually we know we're gonna be pretty safe. Things fail for many reasons though, right? But yeah, usually those those kind of risks. Yeah, because I we we've probably been burnt along the way doing things like that where you you know, yeah, we shouldn't you shouldn't promote or do what it however you've done it. Um so we've we've learned enough lessons that yeah, we have a little playbook on it.

Jen LaForge 13:00

It's it's giving me a different, a different uh ring on those who fail to plan, plan to fail. I'm taking that a little differently now, hearing you say that. Um Steve, I'm gonna ask you this, and then I'll ask you, Tom. Um, what do you think has uh been the success for Vengo for over 20 years? Is it the leadership, the clarity, the product, the what would you say if you could put a finger on it in the past five years?

Steve Elsdon 13:24

Yeah, so having only known Tom for five years and and the privilege I've had of being on the leadership team with the stewards that obviously came before me, I would say it's very clear understanding and articulation of what the goal of this platform is, which is ultimately to service, you know, enterprise-sized clients in Canada with uh a solid platform um tied very strongly um and reasonably to the HR strategies of financial wellness. It's a discounts platform if you want to reduce it to that, but it's so much more. We've built up everything, but it it's the one thing I'll say about Tom as a leader is that when I was hired, he did not stand in front of me and micromanage me. He said, This is your task. You've demonstrated you can do it. I want you to go and do it. And the hires that I've seen Tom make, that's exactly his style. He's he's not in in your way. He is accepting that you have a certain skill set and you know what's expected of you, and you go and do it. So that I think from any founder is extremely important is to have trust um in who you're hiring. And then we've collaborated well along the way, as have all those other hires. But when I came into the company from the advertising side, of course, I didn't understand what the necessary platform was. I'm pushing for my own selfish reasons as an advertiser, but it became very clear about what the proposition of the platform was, what it is, what it isn't, you know, understanding that white space as well of where we don't want to be keeps you on track as well. So clarity, um, great mentorship, I think, from the leadership team, and uh just a true, genuine appreciation and enjoyment for working. It's it, you know, Vengo is a very small company, but it's it's it's very family-oriented. And Tom and and our former president, John, has had much to do with that.

Jen LaForge 15:19

Okay. We're gonna we're gonna send you this clip uh when it comes to performance season.

Steve Elsdon 15:25

Appreciate that. Tom knows nothing I haven't sent to Tom directly.

Jen LaForge 15:30

He's blood, he's actually blushing. Um so your perspective over 20 years, what would you say? And you can't go, well, I have hired like Stanley, but he's great.

Tom De Iulis 15:41

So But uh for for me, it's too sick. Like I think there's two things. Trust in relationships is is our business completely. I would say there's a technology stack and all that other stuff that happens. I mean, it it and that goes from the bottom up. Like what's to describe, like people come because we trust them to be there. And yeah, I trust that's what you do. You do that better than than I do. That's why you're here. You should do that, right? So there's that trust in the employee, and then and then and then our philosophy all the way up is just building that trust to the consumer in the end too. And that's how you know we can help brands come to us. They they have a trust in our relationship, and that's the scale that we can bring. And you know, it sounds simple, but relationships are everything. We we come here, it is a wonderful experience here because we have these relationships that have been built over many years. And we're not looking for those quick wins. We we do want long-term engagement with from all sides of the business, the advertising side and the consumer side. So that's what we're about. So thank you though for the time and the invites.

Jen LaForge 16:42

Oh my gosh, I know it's been so quick. I know we have it's like speed dating here. So we have to we have to leave. Thank you so much. I know this was a bit impromptu and short notice. So I appreciate you guys coming in, but I did really want to have a chance to talk. There's so many nuggets in there uh that if you're listening closely, the secrets to winning are buried in this quick chat around leadership, around autonomy, and around partnerships, not just in the business sense, but with the people that we spend every day with. So thank you again for the quick hits, the valuable lessons, and for giving me the limited time you have today.

Tom De Iulis 17:17

Thank you. It's a pleasure. Appreciate it. Thank you anytime.

Jen LaForge 17:20

And that's it for this episode of Stacked. If you found this useful, follow along as we interview leaders shaping the future of retail and learn how value really works behind the scenes. And if there's a topic you want us to unpack, I'd love to hear from you. See you next time.